Sunday, November 29, 2015

Paper #3 Final Draft

Position paper (#3)
November/December 2015
Eng. 101
Professor Begert
Anthropogenic Climate Disorder

Ælfhild Wiklund

Some call it Global Warming; some call it Global Climate Change: neither of those titles address the whole issue.  The chaos that is currently wrought in the climate of our planet certainly matches the “warming” and “climate change” descriptors, but it is not a complete description.  While the commonly used titles address the result they fail to consider the cause; smoke without fire.  A more accurate name for the phenomenon we are experiencing is Anthropogenic Climate Change or Anthropogenic Climate Disorder, note the important part here is the “anthropogenic.”  Anthropogenic means that humans are the cause.  Should we not then be part of the solution?  I believe that we, the members of the species Homo sapiens, should hold ourselves responsible for our actions and put forth effort to the best of our capabilities to change our active role in Anthropogenic Climate Disorder from cause, to solution.

Before you try to brush me off as just another English student who needed a topic, please, hear me out.  I am a student of science; I have taken environmental science and gotten down on my knees in the mud to plant trees.  I have done research on this topic many times throughout my years of schooling.  I am doing my best to make our world a better place.  I don't expend this effort because I want to be personally acknowledged.  I do so because I want our world to be a better place, 
for generations to come, if not for me.  This subject is strongly connected to my areas of interest and study.  I have watched the graphs of the arctic ice extent change; I have watched the cliffs fall; I encourage you to do your best: to save them all.  To give you an idea of my sources I suggest you check out the graphs at nsidc.org.  The 2012 Arctic sea ice extent is particularly illuminating.

I hope that none of you will refute that our climate is indeed changing.  The signs of change are everywhere.  Spring flowers such as rhododendrons and crocuses are budding and even blooming in November.  The snow-pack last year was so low that the Olympic Mountains appeared bare last summer.  Our garden's dynamics showed a trend towards hot weather plants (the sunflowers and corn grew tall).  I would like to point out that, while this increasing heat does mean that colder regions will grow plants previously confined to the tropics, the tropics in turn have no such replacements.  


The purpose of this paper is to establish the anthropogenic part of Anthropogenic Climate Disorder and to encourage my fellow sentient humans to do something about it.  On the Free Critical Thinking site the "Anthropogenic Global Warming theory" article opens with, "The UK Met Office describes the Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) hypothesis as follows: 'It is now clear that man-made greenhouse gases are causing climate change.  The rate of change began as significant, has become alarming and is simply unsustainable in the long term.'"  The use of the word "alarming" emphasizes how dire the situation truly is, and as you see they too consider it anthropogenic. Another nice quote I found is by Stefan Rahmstorf in a chapter entitled Anthropogenic Climate Change: Revisiting the Facts in which anthropogenic climate change is defined in two ways, first, "anthropogenic emissions of greenhouse gases will lead to significant global warming"(35).  Second, "human activities already have noticeably changed global climate"(35).  In the wikipedia article on the global warming controversy it is explained that none of the national or international scientific bodies deny anthropogenic climate change and, indeed, the ones who do not agree are affiliated with mining.  The implication I find therein to be that the only bodies to refuse to acknowledge it are those who would be adversely effected by its admittance.

Now I know about the question "why," and I know that the answers, “Because I said so,” and “Because this wonderfully accredited source says so,” are not very palatable.  So while I offer yet another credible source, this time it gives you facts rather than mere opinion.  Last year I attended a series of lectures at my local library from the guest speaker, Paul Loubere, who has a PhD in oceanography and geology, and he is (or was) Presidential Research Professor in the Dept. of Geology and Environmental Geoscience.  Professor Loubere explained a number of things that indicate that Global Warming is indeed caused by humans.  The troposphere is warming while the stratosphere is cooling, since the troposphere is lower and is also the layer where the COgathers, this is quantifiable evidence that is best explained by the supposition that the COemissions of our industrial age are at fault.  Warmer night-time temperatures also point to the trapping of heat by greenhouse gases, of which COis a significant member.  He specifically said that CO2 is much better at absorbing outgoing infrared, than incoming energy.  When Paul Loubere gave the lecture considering the El Nino/La Nina patterns he actually said that the climate is no longer following the expected patterns (which he had explained to us).  He went so far as to say, “Sort of like something different is going on here,” he also called it both “intriguing” and “surprising.”  I have seen some of this information elsewhere and never have I come across anything that refutes it.

Now some of you are going to point out that it is too late to stop Global Climate Disorder, anthropogenic, or otherwise; things will keep changing, and we can't halt it now.  This is all true.  That said, I would like to point out that while we can't stop it we can certainly make it worse and are doing so by our current actions.  Every molecule of CO2 that we add to the atmosphere increases the amount of energy trapped by the collective greenhouse gases.  Every degree the ocean warms increases the chance of some aquatic life form going extinct.  We may not be able to stop the progression of global warming or the other climatic chaos, much less counteract the damage all ready done.  However, if we reduce the amount of pollutants that we are actively contributing to the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, and the acidity of the ocean,
 we can slow it down and reduce the harm that has yet to be inflicted.

I know that there is a temptation to think that one individual doesn't make that much of a powerful impact, to say: “Well it is just this once,” “Everyone else does what difference does it make if I do?” “It's not like the actions of one person make a difference.”  But the actions of one person do make a difference.  Societies, nations, and the global population, are made up of individuals, millions of “one person”(s).  Yes if only one person does something it won't make that big a difference in an isolated situation, but we are not isolated; we live in communities and spread our opinions about the internet. By taking action ourselves we can inspire others to copy us.  If every individual refuses to do something because it won't make a difference then they will full-fill their own prophecy, and nothing will happen.  However, if an individual does make a move then that action can have a ripple effect.  If every individual does something then it will certainly have an effect, but it is still a case of individuals taking action.  Taking things into their own hands.

You know the saying “You should leave things better then you found them.” well should that not apply to things on a larger scale then tidying up your work space or picking up trash, say, a global scale?  We are responsible as a species for the disorder in our climate, and we owe it to future generations to do our best to take the edge off it and not make it worse.  Do you want to be remembered as part of the age of humanity that destroyed the world as we know it?  Because that is precisely where we are headed.  I, personally, don't worry too much about reputation, but I suspect most of us would much rather that our descendants grew up knowing that we did everything in our power to make the world a better place for them to live.  Would you rather be seen as a couch potato that abandoned your duty to your world and family or as a hero that marched against the polluting trends; someone who fought: carpooling, recycling, planting trees, campaigning for awareness of truly cross species and borders issues, avoiding disposable products (reuse cups, dishes, forks, take your own carryout dish to restaurants), bicycling, walking on your own two evolved feet.  Fight the good fight, against the tyranny of indifference, self imposed ignorance, and peer pressure.  Take charge of your destiny, save the world from yourself and your fellow humans. Admit, it is Anthropogenic Climate Disorder!

Works cited:
"Anthropogenic Global Warming theory" Free Critical Thinking.  Free University. Web 19 Nov. 2015

RahmstorfStefan. "Anthropogenic Climate Change: Revisiting the Facts." piks-potsdam.de Potsdam Institute for Climate Change Research Web 19 Nov. 2015

"global warming controversy" wikipedia Web 19 Nov. 2015

Loubere, Paul. "Climate Change" Jefferson County Library, WA, Port Hadlock. Feb. 2015


Monday, November 23, 2015

Paper #3 Rough Draft

Position paper (#3)
November 2015
Eng. 101
Professor Begert
Anthropogenic Climate Disorder
Ælfhild Wiklund
Some call it Global Warming; some call it Global Climate Change: neither of those titles address the whole issue. The chaos that is currently wrought in the climate of our planet certainly matches the “warming” and “climate change” descriptors, but it is not a complete description, for while it addresses the result it fails to consider the cause; smoke without fire. A more accurate name for the phenomenon we are experiencing is Anthropogenic Climate Change or Anthropogenic Climate Disorder: the important part here is the “anthropogenic”. Anthropogenic means that humans are the cause. Should we not then be part of the solution? I believe that we, the members of the species Homo sapiens, should hold ourselves responsible for our actions, and put forth effort to the best of our capabilities to change our active role in Anthropogenic Climate Disorder from cause, to solution.

Before you try to brush me off as just another English student who needed a topic, please, hear me out. I am a student of science, I have taken environmental science and gotten down on my knees in the mud to plant trees. I have done research on this topic many times throughout my years of schooling. I am an honest person of our noble country, doing my best to make this a better place. I don't expend this effort because I want to be personally acknowledged, I do so because I want our world to be a better place, if not for me then for generations to come. I have watched the graphs of the arctic ice extent change; I have watched the cliffs fall; I encourage you to do your best: to save them all. This subject is strongly connected to my area of interest and study. To give you an idea of my sources I suggest you check out the graphs at nsidc.org. The 2012 Arctic sea ice extent is particularly illuminating.

I hope that none of you will refute that our climate is indeed changing; the signs of change are everywhere: spring flowers such as rhododendrons and crocuses are budding and even blooming in November, the snow-pack last year was so low that the Olympic Mountains appeared bare last summer, our garden's dynamics showed a trend towards hot weather plants (the sunflowers and corn grew tall). I would like to point out that while this increasing heat does mean that colder regions will grow plants previously confined to the tropics the tropics in turn have no such replacements. The purpose of this paper however is to establish the anthropogenic part of Anthropogenic Climate Disorder and to encourage my fellow sentient humans to do something about it. A credible source's use of the word "alarming" emphasizes how dire the situation truly is and as you see they consider it anthropogenic. On the Free Critical Thinking site the "Anthropogenic Global Warming theory" article opens with,"The UK Met Office describes the Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) hypothesis as follows: 'It is now clear that man-made greenhouse gases are causing climate change. The rate of change began as significant, has become alarming and is simply unsustainable in the long term.'" Another nice quote I found is by Stefan Rahmstorf in a chapter entitled Anthropogenic Climate Change: Revisiting the Facts in which anthropogenic climate change is defined in two ways, first, "anthropogenic emissions of greenhouse gases will lead to significant global warming"(35). And second, "human activities already have noticeably changed global climate"(35). In the wikipedia article on the global warming controversy it is explained that none of the national or international scientific bodies deny anthropogenic climate change and indeed ones who do not agree are affiliated with mining. The implication I find therein to be that the only bodies to deny it are those who would be adversely effected by its admittance.

Now I know about the question why and I know that the answer, “because I said so” or “because this wonderfully accredited source says so”, is not very palatable: so I have yet another credible source, but this time I offer you some facts my source had to share. Last year I attended a series of lectures at my local library from the guest speaker Paul Loubere who has a PhD in oceanography and geology, and he is (or was) Presidential Research Professor in the Dept. of Geology and Environmental Geoscience.   Professor Loubere explained a number of things that indicate that Global Warming is indeed caused by humans:the troposphere is warming while the stratosphere is cooling, since the troposphere is lower and is also the layer where the CO2 gathers this is quantifiable evidence that is best explained by the supposition that the CO2 emissions of our industrial age are at fault; warmer night time temperatures also point to the trapping of heat by greenhouse gases of which CO2 is a significant member; he specifically said that CO2 is much better at absorbing outgoing infrared than incoming energy. When Paul Loubere gave the lecture considering the El Nino/La Nina patterns he actually said that the climate is no longer following the expected patterns which he had explained to us, he went so far as to say, “Sort of like something different is going on here” he called it both “intriguing” and “surprising.” I have seen some of this information elsewhere and never have I come across anything that refutes it.

Now some of you are going to point out that it is too late to stop Global Climate Disorder, anthropogenic or otherwise: things will keep changing, and we can't halt it now.  This is all true.  That said I would like to point out that while we can't stop it we can certainly make it worse and are doing so by our current actions. Every molecule of CO2 that we add to the atmosphere increases the amount of energy trapped by the collective greenhouse gases. Every degree the ocean warms increases the chance of some aquatic life going extinct. We may not be able to stop the progression of global warming and the other climatic chaos, much less counteract the damage all ready done, but we can slow it down and reduce the harm that has yet to be inflicted if we reduce the amount of pollutants that we are actively contributing to the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and the acidity of the ocean.

I know that there is a temptation to think that one individual doesn't make that much of an overall powerful impact and say: “Well it is just this once.”, “Everyone else does what difference does it make if I do?”, “It's not like the actions of one person make a difference.” But the actions of one person do make a difference. Societies, nations and yes the global population is made up of individuals, millions of “one person”(s). Yes if only one person does something it won't make that big a difference in an isolated situation, but we are not isolated; we live in communities and spread our opinions about the internet. By taking action ourselves we can inspire others to copy us. If every individual refuses to do something because it won't make a difference then they will full-fill their own prophecy, and nothing will happen. However if an individual does make a move then that action can have a ripple effect. If every individual does something then it will certainly have an effect, but it is still a case of individuals taking action: taking things into their own hands.

You know the saying “You should leave things better then you found them.” well should that not apply to things on a larger scale then tidying up your work space or picking up trash, say a global scale. We are responsible as a species for the disorder in our climate, and we owe it to future generations to do our best to take the edge off it and not make it worse. Do you want to be remembered as part of the age of humanity that destroyed the world as we know it? Because that is precisely where we are headed. I, personally, don't worry too much about reputation, but I suspect most of us would much rather that our descendants grew up knowing that we did everything in our power to make the world a better place for them to live. Would you rather be seen as a couch potato that abandoned your duty to your world and family, or as a hero that marched against the polluting trends, someone who fought by: carpooling, recycling, planting trees, campaigning for awareness of truly cross species and borders issues, avoiding disposable products (reuse cups, dishes, forks, take your own carryout dish to restaurants), bicycling, walking on your own two evolved feet. Fight the good fight, against the tyranny of indifference, self imposed ignorance and peer pressure. Take charge of your destiny, to save the world, from yourself and your fellow humans. Admit, it is Anthropogenic Climate Disorder!



Works cited:
"Anthropogenic Global Warming theory" Free Critical Thinking.  Free University. Web 19 Nov. 2015

RahmstorfStefan. "Anthropogenic Climate Change: Revisiting the Facts." piks-potsdam.de Potsdam Institute for Climate Change Research Web 19 Nov. 2015


"global warming controversy" wikipedia Web 19 Nov. 2015

Loubere, Paul "Climate Change" Jefferson County Library, WA, Port Hadlock. Feb. 2015

Thursday, November 19, 2015


Anthropogenic climate disorder: quotes, paraphrase

Quotation with no page numbers:

    On the Free Critical Thinking the "Anthropogenic Global Warming theory" article opens with, "The UK Met Office describes the Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) hypothesis as follows: 'It is now clear that man-made greenhouse gases are causing climate change.  The rate of change began as significant, has become alarming and is simply unsustainable in the long term.'"


Paired quotation with page numbers:

According to Stefan Rahmstorf in a chapter entitled Anthropogenic Climate Change: Revisiting the Facts anthropogenic climate change is defined in two ways, first, "anthropogenic emissions of greenhouse gases will lead to significant global warming"(35).  And second, "human activities already have noticeably changed global climate"(35)


Paraphrase with no page numbers:

In the wikipedia article on the global warming controversy it is explained that none of the national or international scientific bodies deny anthropogenic climate change and indeed ones who do not agree are affiliated with mining

Works cited:
"Anthropogenic Global Warming theory" Free Critical Thinking.  Free University. Web 19 Nov. 2015

RahmstorfStefan. "Anthropogenic Climate Change: Revisiting the Facts." piks-potsdam.de Potsdam Institute for Climate Change Research Web 19 Nov. 2015

"global warming controversy" wikipedia Web 19 Nov. 2015



Extra stuff:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy
.  The implication I find therein to be that the only bodies to deny it are those who would be adversely effected by its admittance.

Paraphrase with no page numbers.


http://www.pik-potsdam.de/~stefan/Publications/Book_chapters/Rahmstorf_Zedillo_2008.pdf
.  Future and past they are a lovely way of defining things.

Paired quotation with page numbers.



http://www.freecriticalthinking.org/climate-change/123-anthropogenic-global-warming-theory
  A credible source's use of the word "alarming" emphasises how dire the situation truly is.

Quotation with no page numbers:

Similarities and Differences in Spriggs Essay

Similarities
·         All three articles state positions clearly
·         All articles similar to Spriggs’ essay include appropriate background information
·         All articles have authoritative tones which is similar to Spriggs.
·         All articles appeal to the readers values (pathos).
Similarities/Differences
·         Half of the group articles include responses to what others have said or done
·         A third of the group articles include clear indications of why the topic matters as does Spriggs.
·         A third of the group articles include evidence to their arguments which is similar to Spriggs’ essay.
·         A third of the group articles include more than one point of view which is similar to Spriggs’ essay.

·         Two thirds of the group articles address global issues which is similar to what Spriggs addresses. 

Tuesday, November 17, 2015

Developing Your Argument homework:

Anthropogenic climate disorder.

1.What are you trying to change?(position)
I am trying to change the views of the portion of the human populance that believes that the current climate disorder is not their responsibility and simultaneously give ammunition to those who believe as I do in the cold (or is that hot) facts that the current changes in climate are indeed anthropogenic and that we are responsible for doing our best to fix, or at least slow, it.

2.To whom are you writing? (Audience)
I am writing to the people who would abandon their responsibilities to our world because the lack the understanding of the gravity of the issue at hand; I am writing to those who fail to realize that they can and should make a difference; I am writing to those of like mind so they have an eloquently worded source of ammunition to convert others to our righteous cause.  To all the would be world savers out there: it isn't just fantasy characters who can save they world, so can we, with a bit more subtlety.

3.How do you appeal to their beliefs, values, etc?  (pathos)
I would make the case that we all share this planet, we owe it to future generations to keep our planet as functional as possible.  I would make the appeal to the more scientifically minded that you just don't experiment with your control group, of course they probably don't need convincing.  I would appeal to their sense of superiority, we, the top of the sentience chain, can do anything: including save our world from ourselves.  I would make emotional appeals related to endangered species, see:polar bears, clams...

4.Why should your audience believe you-who are you, and how can you best represent your persona as a writer?(ethos)
I am a student of science, I have taken environmental science and gotten down on my knees in the mud to plant trees.  I have done research on this topic many times.  I will name my sources: remember Paul Lobere!  I am an honest person of our fair country, low poverty still doing my best to make this a better place.  I have watched the graphs of the arctic, I have watched the cliffs fall, I encourage you to do your best, to save them all.  This is strongly connected to my area of interest and study.

5.What are at least 2 reasons the change should be made?
Because if we don't try it will only get worse, states will flood with no where to go, crops will fail because the wrong ones were sown.  Because it is our responsibility to fix the harm we have wrought upon this our home planet.

6.What is a good point that the other side makes about the issue?(concession-ethos)
It is too late to stop it, things will keep changing and we can't halt it now.

7.How would you answer that point? (rebuttal-ethos, logos)
In response I would like to point out that while we can't stop it we can certainly make it worse and are doing so by our current actions.

8.Is there another good point that can be made for the opposition? (concession-ethos)
One individual doesn't make that much of an overall powerful impact.

9.How would you answer that point? (rebuttal-ethos, logos)
Societies, nations and yes the global population is made up of individuals.  Yes if only one person does something it won't make that big a difference in an isolated situation; we are not isolated, we live in communities and spread our opinions about the internet; by taking action ourselves we can inspire others to copy us.  If every individual refuses to do something because it won't make a difference then they will fullfill their own prophecy, and nothing will happen.  However if an individual does make a move then that action can have a ripple affect; other individuals will do the same and it will spread.  If every individual does something then it will certainly have an effect, but it is still a case of individuals taking action: taking things into their own hands.

10.Who will benefit from this change-you? the audience? society? a well-deserving group?
Actually for my topic, all of the above and then some.  I have chosen a truly global issue that effects just about all life, as well as some major inorganics, on this planet.  While I suspect that it has absolutely no impact on convection currents, and some chemotrophes may be exempt (I am sure some of them will be effected,, after all the ocean's chemistry is changing) all known sentient life will certainly be strongly impacted.

Basicly:
Current climate change is anthropogenic and we are responsible for fixing it.
Audience: humans.
Purpose, convince humans that they are responsible for reducing pollution.
They should care because we all are stuck with this planet.  If we don't act it will only get worse faster.  They may believe there is nothing they can do.
p.100 Thinking about the Text

1.If it had been necessary to convince me of her view point Katherine Spriggs would have done so. As it happens I already agree with the topic, that said I appreciate the points she makes and the evidence that she uses to back up her points. The examples of how polyculture farms can work, such as the pigs plowing blueberries, are especially useful; especially when one considers that monoculture farms are wasting resources trying to make up for the fact that they don't do those things. Spriggs' explanation of how adversely the current system effects the environment solidly establishes the importance of her topic.

2.She considers the argument that small farms are not as efficient as large farms and refutes it by pointing out that it really depends on the efficiency you are looking for; small farms are more efficient when it comes to “total output of all crops per acre” as opposed to “output of one crop per acre.” She addresses the possibility of growing more food in the U.S. having a greater negative impact on the environment then our current system as the U.S. uses more advanced technology then the 3rd world nations we import food from, by offering the statistics that the American diet is only 13% imported.

3.The fact that scientists predict that by 2030 the glaciers of Glacier National Park will be purely history is especially convincing to me, because of the following points: it is very appropriate background info, it is a crystal clear indication of why it matters, it is both good reasoning and evidence, it may appeal to whatever values a vaguely environmentally conscious person has left.


4.The photographs that Spriggs' includes give us a look into the portions of the world she is talking about. The photo of gourds in the farmers market show shopping locally in a pleasant light, encouraging people to visit there and shop locally. The opposing photos of a small polyculture farm and a large monoculture farm show us the stark reality of their differences, the former has a human for scale and neat rows of identifiable plants laid out neatly in the dirt, whereas the latter is on a such a scale that a human would be a speck and the plants are little more than a uniform green carpet of strict mechanized gloom. The photo of trucks trucking on down the road amid the forest green brings home the environmental impact of transporting food that is imported from somewhere else.
Ælfhild Wiklund's Annotation
for
Characteristic
features of
position papers

Analysis of “What is Threatening Polarbears article?”

The website endangeredpolarbear.com has an article entitled “What is Threatening Polar Bears?.” The article explains how humans are damaging our planet in such a manner as to destroy the polar bears' habitat. The article uses facts, such as the nature of the Greenhouse Effect, to support its viewpoint.

Copy of text from:

What is Threatening Polar Bears?

 Appropriate  Polar bears live in a very specific habitat.  They need the cold, snow and ice of  the polar regions.  That is why   background    they are called "polar bears" and not "summer  bears."  Polar bears have very few natural threats in the polar   information.  region.  Polar  bears are on the top of the food chain and there are no other animals in the  north that will                              threaten the polar bears.  So why are the polar bears now on the  threatened/endangered species  list?

                 Polar bears are not threatened because of other animals or because they are  being hunted too much.                 Appeal to  Polar bears are threatened as a direct effect on how we as humans treat the earth and the environment.            readers values. People have begun to take the Earth for granted.  They have treated it as thought it is indestructible.  When if                       fact, the earth is destructible, and we are destroying it.   

                           Polar bears live in the arctic, and like many other places on earth, the  has had scientists who are learning                        about what is happening to  that specific region of the earth.  The scientists have been doing deep core .                           This is where they drill a hole down into the ice and pull out a core of  ice.   In this core of ice the scientists can                       get very specific information about the weather, the atmosphere, and the temperature for a specific                                         time period.  These core tests can determine facts from 420,000 years.
                         The deep core tests have revealed facts about the CO2 (carbon dioxide) in the atmosphere.  There is a               Evidence. natural up and down range that the levels have, these levels have never gone over 300 parts per million, that                         is until recent years.  Now what does this mean?  It means that some of the carbon dioxide that used                                         to leave the Earth's atmosphere is now remaining inside the atmosphere.  The carbon  dioxide that is                               remaining on earth, also known as greenhouse gases, is raising  the earth's temperature, causing the                                 "Greenhouse Effect."

                   Now you may wonder what all of this has to do with the polar bears.  The polar bears live in a very                                  sensitive environment.   The  arctic region is made of snow and ice.  Snow and ice is what the polar bears                           depend on for their survival.  The "Greenhouse Effect" warms the earth, and therefore, melts the precious snow                               and ice that the polar bears need for survival.
                     So it is easy to deduce from this, that we, humans, are the cause of the polar bears being threatened.  We are An explicit         slowly killing the planet and most of us are oblivious to it.  Global warming can be slowed down, the polar    opinion is stated  bears do have  a chance.


Characteristic Features not found:
A response to what others have said or done.
A clear indication of why the topic matters.
Attention to more than one point of view.


I believe that by including a response to what others have said or done and by paying attention to more than one point of view they could have composed a worthy counter-argument which would have addressed concerns that would be converts to their position might have. Such as, there is nothing we can do, or why should we care about a nasty ferocious bear? Not that I think that way but I know that some people do.